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  #1  
Unread February 11th, 2007, 11:35 AM
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Editorial on Illegal Immigration

Letter to the editor. Thoughts?

Quote:
Recently large demonstrations have taken place across the country protesting the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration.

Certain people are angry that the US might protect its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and, once here, to stay indefinitely.

Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these protests.
Let's say I break into your house.
Let's say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave.
But I say, "I've made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors.
I've done all the things you don't like to do.
I'm hard-working and honest (except for when I broke into your house).
According to the protesters:
You are Required to let me stay in your house
You are Required to add me to your family's insurance plan
You are Required to Educate my kids
You are Required to Provide other benefits to me and to my family
(my husband will do all of your yard work because he is also hard-working and honest, except for that breaking in part).

If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my RIGHT to be there.

It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying to better myself.
I'm a hard-working and honest, person, except for well, you know, I did break into your house.

And what a deal it is for me!!!
I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of cold, uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and bigoted behavior.
Oh yeah,
I DEMAND that you to learn MY LANGUAGE!!!
so you can communicate with me.

Why can't people see how ridiculous this is?! Only in America .....if you agree, pass it on (in English). Share it if you see the value of it.

If not blow it off......... along with your future Social Security funds, and a lot of other things.
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  #2  
Unread February 11th, 2007, 03:36 PM
Lomithrandel Lomithrandel is offline
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As much as I disagree with illegal immigration, when you live next to such a poor country it is inevitable. Help improve conditions in mexico and they will be less likely to take the risk of breaking into your "house".
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Unread February 11th, 2007, 03:39 PM
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It makes total sense to me.

I dont mind monitored legal immigration, but illegals are getting out of hand. You guys think you have it bad with the mexicans, but we have half of europe trying to get into the UK, especially now europeans can move around Europe more freely thanks to the EU

It was estimated in 2005 that we already have in excess of 1 million illegals and IMO, thats 1 million too many.
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  #4  
Unread February 11th, 2007, 04:08 PM
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Well the US has over 30 million illegals, mostly around the souther US and west coast in California. It's easy to say their country would be better off without them, but at the same time there are a lot of jobs that nobody else is willing to do.
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Unread February 11th, 2007, 04:31 PM
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IMO, people arent willing to do them because the wages are so low. If there were NO imigrants at all in the country, eager to fill those positions at that low wage, employers would be forced to raise the wages to a decent level to get employees, and then nationals would be willing to do them.

You see I talk the sense
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  #6  
Unread February 11th, 2007, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazonBitch View Post
Letter to the editor. Thoughts?
Quote:
Recently large demonstrations have taken place across the country protesting the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration.

Certain people are angry that the US might protect its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and, once here, to stay indefinitely.

Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these protests.
Let's say I break into your house.
Let's say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave.
But I say, "I've made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors.
I've done all the things you don't like to do.
I'm hard-working and honest (except for when I broke into your house).
According to the protesters:
You are Required to let me stay in your house
You are Required to add me to your family's insurance plan
You are Required to Educate my kids
You are Required to Provide other benefits to me and to my family
(my husband will do all of your yard work because he is also hard-working and honest, except for that breaking in part).

If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my RIGHT to be there.

It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying to better myself.
I'm a hard-working and honest, person, except for well, you know, I did break into your house.

And what a deal it is for me!!!
I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of cold, uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and bigoted behavior.
Oh yeah,
I DEMAND that you to learn MY LANGUAGE!!!
so you can communicate with me.

Why can't people see how ridiculous this is?! Only in America .....if you agree, pass it on (in English). Share it if you see the value of it.

If not blow it off......... along with your future Social Security funds, and a lot of other things.
To be honest, the argument in that letter is fundamentally flawed, it's somehow suggesting someone's country is akin to someone's property, and that's not the case in reality. Put the same situation with a fellow national having broken into and living in your house, and it provokes the same reaction. It's completely irrelevant.

I don't believe that being born into a country means that you are exclusively entitled to the benefits of living there above any other, I think anyone from anywhere should be able to better their lives by migrating, if they wish (provided they are prepared to earn an honest living), and I really don't understand what all the fuss is about.

It seemed like the author of this letter was under the impression that the majority of immigrants were entering the country to sponge off the government (which is incredibly difficult to do, you need to avoid the authorities if you're illegal). I don't understand where this impression came from, far more natives sponge off the government than immigrants do. And would I be happy to see the native-spongers deported? Yes I would... preferably to the moon.

Quote:
Oh yeah,
I DEMAND that you to learn MY LANGUAGE!!!
so you can communicate with me.
Who is being referred to here? Because that's one hell of a generalisation to make.

Quote:
It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying to better myself.
I'm a hard-working and honest, person, except for well, you know, I did break into your house.
What's wrong with wanting to better yourself? Isn't that what everyone wants?

I believe all humans are equal, and should all be entitled to get the best they can out of life, not that being born into a certain country automatically means you qualify to have a better life, no-one else is entitled to.

Quote:
there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of cold, uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and bigoted behavior.
It's easy to play the "It's not racism" card, but why doesn't he/she have a problem with all those 60+ ex-pats that retire to Spain every year, contributing nothing to their economy, probably requiring their health service, and possibly not bothering to learn the language...?

Does make you wonder...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphrodite View Post
IMO, people arent willing to do them because the wages are so low. If there were NO imigrants at all in the country, eager to fill those positions at that low wage, employers would be forced to raise the wages to a decent level to get employees, and then nationals would be willing to do them.

You see I talk the sense
If employers raised the wages, they'd have to raise the amount they charge for the service... one way or another, the natives wouldn't be happy about it.

Is this a debate about illegal immigration, or just immigration in general? Because immigration is an important part of the economy. Most immigrants are young (so less likely to require medical care), work several hours in low paid jobs, and pay a lot of taxes; most contribute more than they claim, for sure.
  #7  
Unread February 11th, 2007, 07:05 PM
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In my part of the country, French used to be the second language. Now spanish is being push on us. French has faded away.
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  #8  
Unread February 11th, 2007, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissHailstorm View Post
I don't believe that being born into a country means that you are exclusively entitled to the benefits of living there above any other, I think anyone from anywhere should be able to better their lives by migrating, if they wish (provided they are prepared to earn an honest living), and I really don't understand what all the fuss is about.
No qualms with that here, as long as those that wish to immigrate do so through the proper procedures.

Quote:
It seemed like the author of this letter was under the impression that the majority of immigrants were entering the country to sponge off the government (which is incredibly difficult to do, you need to avoid the authorities if you're illegal). I don't understand where this impression came from, far more natives sponge off the government than immigrants do. And would I be happy to see the native-spongers deported? Yes I would... preferably to the moon.
I think the fundamental misunderstanding here is that they are talking about the illegal immigration problems in the US. A good majority of the illegal immigrants in the US are using the school system for their children while not paying the taxes that support it, showing up at the hospitals where it is now a mandate that they must treat everyone regardless of citizenry or ability to pay (US does not have a national healthcare system) and then skipping out on the bills which is resulting in vast increases in health care costs, etc... We also have some native spongers, but a lot has been done in the last while to sour the milk there.


Quote:
Who is being referred to here? Because that's one hell of a generalisation to make.
In that area the author is referring to the fact that because of the large spanish speaking population - which would not be nearly as large without those that immigrated illegally - have been pushing for Spanish to be made an official language of the US (50/50 with English).


Quote:
What's wrong with wanting to better yourself? Isn't that what everyone wants?

I believe all humans are equal, and should all be entitled to get the best they can out of life, not that being born into a certain country automatically means you qualify to have a better life, no-one else is entitled to.
Agreed, as I said above, this is why it's not OK for countries to shut down their borders entirely, IMO.


Quote:
It's easy to play the "It's not racism" card, but why doesn't he/she have a problem with all those 60+ ex-pats that retire to Spain every year, contributing nothing to their economy, probably requiring their health service, and possibly not bothering to learn the language...?

Does make you wonder...
That's a good point. I think the author was mainly addressing US issues, but that would be a good question to ask them if we could.



Quote:
Is this a debate about illegal immigration, or just immigration in general? Because immigration is an important part of the economy. Most immigrants are young (so less likely to require medical care), work several hours in low paid jobs, and pay a lot of taxes; most contribute more than they claim, for sure.
This is a debate about illegal immigration. I think it is an important distinction that should be made, as the two often get confused in a debate.

I think most everyone agrees that people should be allowed to move to another country/have the opportunity to better themselves. Which they are able to do, but there is a process. The editorial is a comment on the large amount of illegal immigration into the US and the strain it puts on the system as most of those that have illegally immigrated do not contribute anything past cheap labor and then use a good deal of US programs for themselves and their children.
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  #9  
Unread February 12th, 2007, 12:33 AM
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You have a point, AB, but........

Well, to take the author's point a bit further..... you BRING someone over to your house, ask them to work, keep a portion of the money they earned (it's called taxes, and unless they're working under the table, it's being taken out of their earnings.... and if they are illegals using fake IDs, they can't file for a refund), then get mad at them for not leaving.

The problem is, there are jobs here that Americans aren't willing to do (as George Lopez said, Americans have a love/hate relationship with illegal immigrants.... they LOVE their salads, they HATE picking lettuce). And the people speaking the loudest are the ones that seem to be caught with the illegal housekeeper/nanny.

And my problem is, no one is addressing the large number of Brits/Irish/other white people that overstay their visas; instead, this is a debate about BROWN illegal immigrants. (Besides, the Irish have, or at least had, a special set-aside of visas, pushed thru Congress by the powerful Irish-American contigent).

But who is to blame? Where I am now, the minimum wage is $7.80 an hour, and people BITCH that it isn't enough. Hey, let's go back East, where you're getting $5.15 an hour to start, Buster Brown. How about getting off your lazy non-immigrant arse, and showing me that you're WORTH more than the exhoribant nearly $70 a day you squeeze out of me, and we'll talk.
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  #10  
Unread February 12th, 2007, 09:02 AM
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I pretty much agree with what Oz is saying... because this is an issue in high debate, people are losing sight of what the problems are.

It's easy to focus on one group of people and make several generalisations of them.

That letter, I thought, made a very poor argument. Yes, immigrants (as well as natives) make use of various system in place (education, insurance, etc) but illegal as well as legal immigrants do that, so I'm failing to see the big difference here. In fact, it's the illegal immigrants that are less likely to try and claim benefits because they need to stay out of "the loop", as it were.

I can't say for sure, but the attitude I got from the author of that letter was that, "I was born in the US, therefore I'm entitled to reap the benefits; you weren't born here, so why should you be claiming what rightfully belongs to us?" That's a bad attitude. The country you were born in does not and should not dictate what you can make of your life. That's why this analogy of the house pissed me off. You can build yourself a "nice" house through your own hard work and effort. The country you were born in is not your choice, so "my house is nicer than your house" - so what? What did you do to "earn" it?

I'm not saying immigration is not an issue, but it does concern me the way many people speak of it at the moment. Once upon a time, it wasn't spoken about for fear of being considered "racist". Now there's somewhat of a backlash where people think it's okay to shout out loud their "issues", then tack on, "I'm just saying what you're all thinking, but can't because you'll be accused of being racist". Cue cheers, etc.


The question is, why are these illegal immigrants choosing to not enter the country in the proper manner? A great deal of people seem to assume that because they aren't, that must mean they are only entering to sponge or otherwise laze around, and I don't believe that's really the case.

I think there is a debate here, for sure, but I really can't agree that the author of that letter has made much of a point.
 

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